Poll: Do you think Making-your-movie threads messed up the forum?
|Yes, they need a new section.||10||29%|
|No, but I prefer a new section for them.||10||29%|
|No, it's okay to keep 'em this way.||12||35%|
|I don't know what to say.||2||6%|
Ammar Salmi (Level 5) ~ 6/24/2012 7:33 AM
I just wanted to know if I'm the only one bothered by them.
Chris Messineo (Founder) ~ 6/24/2012 8:03 AM
I think their a good idea, but it probably would of been easier to start with a few less subjects and let the actual threads delve into the details.
Faith Friese Nelson (Level 5) ~ 6/24/2012 9:49 AM
I think this site is more about writing and it is distracting.
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 6/24/2012 12:31 PM
Well, I was worried about being presumptuous and it look like I probably was.
The idea of making the various threads was to make searching for specific topics a bit easier. It wasn't to annoy, of course.
Chris... feel free to lock the threads and they'll fall off the main view in a day or three.
Derek Anderson (Level 4) ~ 6/24/2012 1:00 PM
They are there to help others, and they seem to be generating a lot of helpful advice for those with questions. I do not wish this to come across as rude, but it's a little self-indulgent to say something bothers you when it's benefiting others.
I don't have any interest in making my own movie currently, but I've still learned a few things just by reading other people's experiences that they have posted.
In fact, I just love hearing about people's writing and movie making endeavors. It's a great distraction from writing my own projects (hangs head).
I think Tim should be thanked, not served up for anonymous criticism and subjected to a belittling poll.
Like I said, no disrespect Ammar, I've seen you on many screenwriting boards and have had conversations with you. I respect your love and dedication for the craft. But this just rubbed me as unnecessary.
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 6/24/2012 1:18 PM
Derek, all anyone has said is that they deserve their own section. There's no need to make this personal. Sheesh.
Derek Anderson (Level 4) ~ 6/24/2012 1:32 PM
No personal attacks toward Ammar at all.
Just throwing my support behind Tim. I don't think words like "bothered" and "distracting" are fair to use to describe the time and thought he put into helping others.
Just my 2 cents. No hostility intended, I hope Ammar sees that.
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 6/24/2012 1:55 PM
Sure, but "bothered" and "distracted" are perfectly fair words to describe those who are bothered and distracted by the threads and feel they'd be better served in their own section.
Ayal Pinkus (Level 5) ~ 6/24/2012 2:53 PM
I'm sure I'm going to make enemies with this, but here goes anyway: this site isn't so much about writing as it is about writing screenplays, isn't it?
And now for the kill: isn't a screenplay *just* a design document for a film, and wouldn't a writer-of-screenplays benefit from knowing how movies get made?
This is an honest question, I've never been near a filmset so I'm ignorant on this matter. I'd imagine it was similar to a software architect writing a design document for a new software feature. It is useful that he knows a bit about what goes into actually creating software. That sort of thing.
*ducks for cover/crawls back under a rock* :-)
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 6/24/2012 3:05 PM
No one is saying that writers shouldn't bother learning about filmmaking, Ayal. The issue is whether certain topics on a message board are distracting or not.
Ammar Salmi (Level 5) ~ 6/24/2012 3:15 PM
I got my expectations high to finally have a food fight in Moviepoet, but Derek seems to be way too nice to start one *sigh*. But I'm getting the hang of it, my next poll/thread needs to provoke the right member, that's all. *picture me with red horns, chuckling*
Aside from my evil plans, the whole point of the poll is to see how many people think the threads need their own section. The fact that they're helpful was out of the question for me. A vending machine that serves free soda is great, not so great if someone puts in your driveway. All is needed is to move it aside. Free soda will still be there. As for my choice of word "bothered," you can always take the less offensive meaning of the verb: "To give trouble to." I did the same trick when you said:
"a little self-indulgent" (Ten people agree)
"not served up for anonymous criticism" (Anonymous criticism is the way to go when people want to object, but afraid to offend)
"a belittling poll" (Never was my intent)
"unnecessary" (I wouldn't have posted it, if it was so)
I knew you got a good intent for using those words, so I took them as so. My intent was good too, so don't let a word choice convince you otherwise.
Back to my evil plans, *counting with fingers* Pia won't start a food fight, nor Tim, nor Derek. Who's next? *read a name* Hmm, interesting.
Ayal Pinkus (Level 5) ~ 6/24/2012 3:24 PM
Ammar, I'm sorry man, I already ate all the food... no food fights... Pillow fight?
Ammar Salmi (Level 5) ~ 6/24/2012 3:30 PM
Nah, not pillows, I'm not that hungry. Food or I'm going to bed. :(
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 6/24/2012 3:36 PM
coconut cream pies at twenty paces
Derek Anderson (Level 4) ~ 6/24/2012 3:54 PM
I knew you wouldn't take it offensively, that's why I posted. I think a different avenue should've been taken. Although Tim will never admit it, it's disheartening to see something you orchestrated for the benefit of others to be criticized under the notion that it has "messed up the forum." That's a hard lump to swallow, no matter who you are. Encouraging the continuity of fresh and innovative ideas should always be a priority in a community like this. Not polls that deter them.
Thanks for taking the time to explain your side to me, Ammar.
Very good points.
Sure, but being bothered and distracted by a link that you have the power to NOT click on is a bit irrational.
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 6/24/2012 4:15 PM
Declaring someone should be immune to criticism simply because they spent a lot of time on something is irrational.
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 6/24/2012 4:16 PM
And Tim's topics fill the front page and obstruct new topics that aren't part of his group of topics. That's what makes them distracting and bothersome.
Faith Friese Nelson (Level 5) ~ 6/24/2012 4:25 PM
Travis, For what it's worth, I agree with you. But, I'm just an old lady and what do I know? :)
Travis DeStein (Level 5) ~ 6/24/2012 4:41 PM
Don't worry, the majority of users in this poll agree with you, too, Faith!
Ammar Salmi (Level 5) ~ 6/24/2012 5:16 PM
You are being irrational to think that the vending machine is too sacred to be moved aside. And we won't hang the guy who put it there, so no need to be overprotective. We're past thanking each other in MoviePoet, we're like a family, silent appreciation, loud complaints.
-"For A Few Dollars More" theme-*A lollipop hangs from my mouth. A pie in hand. Tucking a napkin into my collar* Ready when you are.
Derek Anderson (Level 4) ~ 6/24/2012 5:18 PM
We got our food fight after all!!
Haha, nothing was mentioned about immunity, but I thought the negative response towards Tim could've been handled with more tact, rather than blindsiding him with a poll about how he "messed up the forums."
And by my count, the first non-Making your movie thread on the 2nd page of the discussions is over 8 days old. In fact, 7 threads on the first page have been stagnant for 3-4 days now. This forum doesn't see enough new topics to justify the criticism. And it's just so easy to not click on them if you don't want to see them.
*flips table to shield from impending food tossing*
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 6/24/2012 5:20 PM
you'd be wise to skin that smoke wagon, Ammar. Grin.
But seriously, if those threads are an annoyance... Chris... Lock them or move them... I didn't intend to heist the forum.
Pia Cook (Level 5) ~ 6/24/2012 5:42 PM
Even a food fight about a poll is better than no posts at all...
Margaret Ricke (Level 5) ~ 6/25/2012 1:48 AM
Wait! I thought I was the only one who started annoying threads...
I can understand how Tim's threads could bother some people. I can also see how this particular thread could bother some other people. In fact, I don't think there are that many threads on this site that couldn't be considered annoying to somebody somewhere, and that can include the threads on current contests.
When I log in I go to the discussion page and see what's going on. I check out the threads that interest me first, and I scan the others to see if there's something I want to read. I go back to the last time I made a comment and quit there because I know I've read everything up until that point.
God knows I've been the last one to comment on many an old thread... I think there was even a thread about last commenter stats a while back. I seem to remember making the top ten or so thread killers, and I'm thinking that probably puts me among the annoying. Sorry for that, but oh, well.
The fact is, no one has to follow or even pay attention to any single thread on this site. If one thread doesn't interest you, go to another. It will be a lot easier on Chris than asking him to reprogram the site to suit any one group's wants or perceived needs.
Personally, I don't understand why people who write movies don't care to know what it takes to produce a film of any length, or about what filmmakers want and need from a script. I think it's a good idea to be aware of how much a short script we write could end up costing in time and money, because a lot of that expense is generated by the writing.
BTW, Tim - "...you'd be wise to skin that smoke wagon, Ammar. Grin." What does that even mean? I'm lost.
Ammar Salmi (Level 5) ~ 6/25/2012 4:05 AM
Fact #1: Not clicking on them won't make them disappear. You can't ignore an elephant in your bedroom. You can hardly avoid it. Members will keep posting in them, and they'll never sink down to the second page of the forum. They'll always crowd the first one.
Fact #2: We're not arguing about how helpful the knowledge of film-making is to screenwriters, so there is no point in bringing up the subject in this thread. We're discussing whether making-your-movie threads are making the navigation of the forum troublesome or not.
Fact #3: Moviepoet is for screenwriters and about screenwriting. To discuss film-making every now and then is helpful, but to make the subject take over is not.
Solution: All the threads could be combined in just three, or even one thread. Every explorer has the option to find a word in a certain web page. If a member wants to talk about sound editing, he can start his post with: "Post-production - sound editing." If another member wants to read about the same subject, he can just look up the word "sound" or "sound editing."
If Chris would give the green-light, I'll volunteer to start a new thread called "Making your movie" and copy/past all what have already been posted in those threads, adding the member's name and the subject to the header of each post. If one is too few, I'll make three: pre-production, production, and post production and promotion.
Fact #4: "skin that smoke wagon" means unsheathe your revolver/pistol/side-arm. (Tombstone 1993)
Michael Cornetto (Level 5) ~ 6/25/2012 5:15 AM
I think the fact that those threads need headings and subheadings at all is an indication that those threads are trying to act like a separate forum. I know there used to be a second forum here ages ago. Those threads are proof that separate forum is needed again now.
Rustom Irani (Moderator) ~ 6/25/2012 5:49 AM
Since no new members seem to remember anything about the original Filmmaking forum here are the origin and some subsequent threads right up to its merger with the the writing forum:
January 08, 2007 - www.moviepoet.com/reply.aspx?thread=3&forum=1&search=filmmaking%20forum
April 13, 2007 - www.moviepoet.com/reply.aspx?thread=76&forum=1&search=filmmaking%20forum
July, 17, 2007 - www.moviepoet.com/reply.aspx?thread=207&forum=1&search=filmmaking%20forum
August 09, 2007 - www.moviepoet.com/reply.aspx?thread=253&forum=1&search=filmmaking%20forum
and a few more, until...
July 24, 2008 - www.moviepoet.com/reply.aspx?thread=1084&forum=1&search=filmmaking%20forum
Sure, we've got plenty of members since then and plenty more who have now taken up to filming their own writing.
But the essence of it, I think, will remain the same. Most queries will pertain to the elementaries of film production --Gear to buy, editing software, quick tips etc.-- with a few questions delving into discussing movie making as a process.
I think the whole idea of discussing a process intricately is something that'll rarely crop up and importantly, needs regular healthy contributions without which it'll peter out.
Tim's threads cover vast topics, and probably disconnect those who feel they can't contribute at length or keep it alive for long.
The thing is, unlike the writing process there are certain aspects of production wherein one can't be entirely subjective once technical aspects enter the picture. In these scenarios there IS a right or wrong answer, which automatically dissuades a purely creative writer.
So, shouldn't a poll ask if members are willing to participate in discussions about the filmmaking process (Which is huge) technical and creative, or just keep this writing related with a few queries and tips thrown in about making movies?
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 6/25/2012 8:48 AM
I think the threads should be locked. Too much attention on them... And not in a good way.
Chris Messineo (Founder) ~ 6/25/2012 9:05 AM
The one thing that is exceedingly clear to me is that Tim was only trying to create some threads to help people learn and promote some conversations. That is a good thing.
I know it's a little confusing now, but give it a month and the threads that aren't popular will drop off the main page.
Honestly, if this is a problem (and I don't know that it is), it will correct itself quickly.
Pia Cook (Level 5) ~ 6/25/2012 9:25 AM
I don't see why those threads bother people. To me they are more interesting than what movie someone last saw and has more to do with our own writing than watching movies.
William Bienes (Mod Emeritus) ~ 6/25/2012 9:39 AM
"I think the threads should be locked. Too much attention on them... And not in a good way."
Nonsense, Tim. They were great ideas and very important to writing.
Byron Matthews (Level 4) ~ 6/25/2012 11:11 AM
David Birch (Level 5) ~ 6/25/2012 3:11 PM
@TW...since one of the yearly contests involves the "production" of a script, i think it's entirely appropriate to have threads that discuss this subject...it can be a great place for mining information...i don't find them annoying at all...
Marnie Mitchell Lister (Level 5) ~ 6/25/2012 3:43 PM
Personally I found Tim to be annoying years ago. Not sure what took the rest of you so long.
Tim Westland (Moderator) ~ 6/25/2012 3:54 PM
Oh man... Couldn't we have locked this thread before Marnie got to it?
Reginald McGhee (Level 0) ~ 6/25/2012 11:35 PM
I mean no.
Khamanna Iskandarova (Level 5) ~ 6/26/2012 5:58 AM
I mean no.
Olga Tremaine (Level 4) ~ 6/26/2012 6:55 PM
I think these threads are great.
Khamanna Iskandarova (Level 5) ~ 6/27/2012 2:37 AM
I mean, no. I answered no, but new..
But I can't expect it done or even ask for it - I'm lazy to use html for the links (sometimes, not always!). I think it's way too much to ask.
Reginald McGhee (Level 0) ~ 6/27/2012 10:04 AM
Same. I meant to vote "No, it's okay to keep 'em this way."